Appliance Repair Show Transcript - August 19, 2007

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Amana Digital Electric Washer and Dryer Stopped Working after a Power Failure


JOHN MCCULLOCH

We're going to go to John, in Walled Lake, who's got an Amana washer/dryer that's stopped running after a power failure.


JOHN

Hello. Both the washer and dryer will go on for maybe five seconds and then cut off.


JOHN SOWDEN

Okay. Is this a stackable unit? Is it all one, or are there two separate units?


JOHN

They're two separate units.


JOHN SOWDEN

And are they...they've both failed at the same time?


JOHN

Yes, they're both digital.


JOHN SOWDEN

Ah, they both have the control board?


JOHN

Yes.


JOHN SOWDEN

Is there anything else in your home that's acting up?


JOHN

No, everything's fine. And, I went through the checklist, you know, plugged it in, unplugged it, and so on, but it still works the same way.


JOHN SOWDEN

Are they both plugged into the same receptacle?


JOHN

Yes.


JOHN SOWDEN

Yeah, it sounds like you could have had a brown out that damaged those...it's unusual, really unusual that both units would quit or have the same problem. But if they both have a circuit board, it's possible that it was either a lighting strike or a brownout and it has damaged both of those units. That's really unusual! It's not something you see very often, but it's the only thing I can think of at this time, that they both, in one occurrence, had failed, especially since they were plugged into the same outlet, it could have been something, especially with lightning strikes, they'll do weird things. Sometimes they'll take out the toaster but leave the phone alone...


JOHN

Well, there was no rain. We had been at a picnic not too far away, and it didn't rain.


JOHN MCCULLOCH

In the Detroit area, and I'm not sure how widespread it was, John, but we had a brownout not too long ago, a few weeks ago. We have an instruction list where we go through all our appliances and unplug them.


JOHN SOWDEN

From what you're describing, that's what I would think.


JOHN
So, is that a serious repair?


JOHN SOWDEN

Yeah, normally the control boards for those units are one hundred to two hundred dollars a piece. Since you need one for each unit, this might not be a cheap endeavor.


JOHN

I'm about ready to take the loss and scrap these two things and stay away from digitals.


JOHN SOWDEN

Well, really a brownout can damage just about any component, but the electronic stuff does seem to be a little more susceptible and a little more expensive to repair. But they're also nice because they give you more washing and drying options.


JOHN

Well, my wife is the one that uses them and she never liked them.


JOHN SOWDEN

Well, then this might be a good time to upgrade. The other thing is I would inspect the receptacle itself. You could have a loose wire or something in there. If you're sometimes getting power and sometimes not, if it's burnt, you could have a bad connection and as soon as you put a load on it, it's causing a voltage drop. So before you scrap them, you might want to try them in another receptacle.


JOHN

Oh, I tried that!


JOHN SOWDEN

Oh, okay. Well, you're way ahead of me this morning!


JOHN

Yeah, it didn't work. So replace the complete board then, huh?


JOHN SOWDEN

That's about the only thing you can do for this problem. The first thing you want to do is inspect the connections to the controllers are good, and that you don't have any burnt wiring there. But for both of them to go at the same time, and being plugged into the same receptacle, it sounds like it was either a brownout or a lightning strike.


JOHN

And how can I prevent this from happening again? Should I, if I decide to get a repair, get a power surge plug?


JOHN SOWDEN

Yeah, get a ground fault interrupter for that circuit. You can get them for the whole house now, but yes, you need to protect those, especially computers and stuff.


JOHN

If I call the manufacturer, they don't have an act of God policy or anything?


JOHN SOWDEN

Well, it is kind of an act of God, yes, but their warranty covers what's on their machine itself and what they can control. That would be true for pretty much any manufacturer, but that's not the first time I've heard that, that if it's something that they can't control then they're not going to take care of it.


JOHN

Okay. Thanks for the news.


1982 Upright Freezer with Deteriorating Seal, Repair versus Cost of Replacing


JOHN MCCULLOCH

Here's Pam, in Canton, who's got a general question on how a freezer works, here on the Appliance Repair Show. Pam, what do you want to know?


PAM

I have a twenty-six year old, upright freezer, and the seal has started to go at the top so it's building up frost a lot faster. So, we're looking at getting a new one. So, I'm looking at frost free versus the regular frost type. One salesperson told us that the frost free temperature, if you have food in there for some time, or like ice cream, that the temperatures are irregular, so it can go down and come back up, etc. Is that true?


JOHN SOWDEN

That is true. A self defrosting freezer will normally, two to four times a day depending on the unit, will turn off and defrost the coils inside there. When that happens it turns on a heater inside the refrigerator or freezer section in this case. The temperature swing will go up to twenty-five or thirty degrees for ten or fifteen minutes, and then it will go back down and run between zero and eight degrees. Whereas a manual defrost freezer will not do that on a daily basis and you normally can get longer food storage from a manual defrost, versus the self-defrost because of that temperature swing. You're a lot less likely to get freezer burn and things like that with a manual defrost versus a self defrost.


PAM

Okay. Well then my next question is: we're debating whether or not we should just get a new seal for this one we've already got. How much energy savings is there when you compare today's units to one that's twenty five years old? Is it significant?


JOHN SOWDEN

Yeah. I would say it all depends on what you buy to replace it obviously, but a lot of them meet the new energy star ratings. I'd say probably twenty to forty percent savings. But they probably don't run that much; it depends on where you have it. It would take possibly a long time to recoup that. It really depends on what kind you have now, how efficient it is; obviously as they get older it's likely that they'll be a little less efficient, the compressor valves wear and they have to run longer periods of time to cool properly. This would be a time to replace it if you were looking to do so.


PAM

My last question is they say if you keep it in the garage you void your warranty?


JOHN SOWDEN

That is correct!


PAM

Oh boy!


JOHN SOWDEN

The reason for that is, the refrigerators and freezers are made to be in an ambient temperature between fifty and eighty-five, ninety degrees maximum, and that's what they're designed to do. Unlike a car that goes down the road and there's all these variances in temperature, the refrigerators are designed to be a fixed, sitting in one place type of unit. In the garage in the wintertime, the oil in your compressor gets thick just like the oil in your car gets thick, and it causes it to become hard-starting and cause pre-mature compressor wear. As well as in the hot summer months, when it's really hot in your garage and the door is down, it causes it to run more and work a lot harder because of the ambient heat. So, most of them have in the warranty, depending on the manufacturer, something that will stipulate that if it's in the garage, then it's not part of the warranty procedures.


PAM

Well, thank you so much I really appreciate all this.


JOHN SOWDEN

Hopefully, I was some help for you.


PAM

A big help! Thank you.


1999 GE Side by Side Refrigerator with Water Leaking Out the Bottom


JOHN MCCULLOCH

And, right now we go to Ed, who has a GE refrigerator that's leaking water, here on the Appliance Repair Show.


ED

I know why it's leaking water.


JOHN SOWDEN

Okay.


ED

It's about a 1999 or 2000 model, and we moved it to the cottage year before last. I didn't hook up the water and ice for the door, but when I did, it ran out the bottom. And I looked, and there are two plastic valves in the back.


JOHN SOWDEN

Did you winterize it when you...?


ED

No.


JOHN SOWDEN

Is the valve cracked now?


ED

It's broken on both ends!


JOHN SOWDEN

Yeah, that's what happens.


ED

But the main question is, is there anything else probably, or likely to be broken either than those two valves?


JOHN SOWDEN

Probably not. There could be some of the plastic tubing that's split.


ED

Okay. And those valves are quite expensive!


JOHN SOWDEN

Yes, they are. When you close up the cottage, make sure you drain all your plumbing as far as the whole house goes, but you need to also address the dishwasher and the refrigerator and stuff.


ED

How can you winterize a refrigerator like that?


JOHN SOWDEN

The best thing to do is just turn off the water and block the supply line; then you can disconnect it from the water valve.


ED

See, I disconnected that water line off this thing...right at the valve.


JOHN SOWDEN

And then on the other side as well, where it goes into the...?


ED

I took the plastic tube that feeds the valves off at the refrigerator.


JOHN SOWDEN

And what about the hoses that go into the machine itself?


ED

That's the only one!


JOHN SOWDEN

There's one incoming, the main supply line-


ED

That's the one!


JOHN SOWDEN

Yes, and then there's also two lines that go out-


ED

Oh, no. Those I didn't take out.


JOHN SOWDEN

Yeah. So it was holding water and-


ED

Obviously, there was water in the valve and as I recall, I called one place online and it was going to be pretty close to four hundred dollars to fix the valves.


JOHN SOWDEN

Wow!


ED

But, fortunately, I just heard a commercial while you were on break for Repairclinic.com. I'm going to try them.


JOHN SOWDEN

You should. We show two valves and we have one of them in stock. One is $52.55 and one is $57.60.


ED

Good lord, that's one third of what they wanted at the other place!


JOHN SOWDEN

Okay. But that's not installed. You have to do the work.


ED

Well, I can install it. My primary concern was that if I'm going to spend three or four hundred dollars on this thing, then is it going to leak someplace else?


JOHN SOWDEN

No. I take it you don't heat the cottage? That's normally what happens.


ED

Okay. Thank you very much.


Hotpoint Side by Side Refrigerator, Model CSX22GA, Leaking From the Freezer Side


JOHN MCCULLOCH

Tom, in Dearborn, has a Hotpoint problem here on the Appliance Repair Show. Hey Tom!


TOM

I have a Hotpoint side by side refrigerator. The girl asked if I had the model number and I think it CSX22GA. It's a twenty-one point nine cubic feet side by side refrigerator. And, it leaks under the freezer side, pretty badly.


JOHN SOWDEN

It leaks out the freezer door or from behind the machine?


TOM

From underneath it.


JOHN SOWDEN

From underneath it?


TOM

Yes.


JOHN SOWDEN

So do you find water on the floor in front of the machine or...?


TOM

Yes.


JOHN SOWDEN

Okay. Well, normally that's caused from the defrost drain tube being plugged up, and then the water will trickle out the front. If you open the door you might see where there's ice on the floor of the freezer.


TOM

Oh yeah, there is!


JOHN SOWDEN

Okay! That's a sign of a freezer drain being obstructed. The best way to go about that is you have to turn the machine off and remove the back panel of the freezer. There's a small hole where the defrost drain water is supposed to be routed through, but it's probably plugged up. You can take a turkey baster with some hot water and flush that out and you should be back in business.


TOM

Gee whiz! I sure appreciate the info. And, she said I couldn't ask about the gas range, so I guess I won't.


1997 Tappan Gas Oven Won't Heat but the Igniter Is Glowing


JOHN SOWDEN

Sure, go ahead! What have you got a gas range?


TOM

Yes, sir. It's a Tappan gas range. And the top burners work of course, but I turn it on and I can look underneath by the grill at the bottom, and see a light that I would have to think is the pilot light. But I don't get any heat in the oven.


JOHN SOWDEN

You see a glow from the underside?


TOM

Yes sir.


JOHN SOWDEN

Most of those have an ignition igniter, a glow bar igniter. If it's glowing and not lighting, then most people think that the igniter is good, but in most cases actually the igniter is the one that's failing. It has to draw a certain amount of current and interact with the gas valve in order to open. How old is this stove?


TOM

It's about ten years old.


JOHN SOWDEN

Have you ever had any work done to it?


TOM

No.


JOHN SOWDEN

Yeah, it's about time for a new igniter. Normally, they get weak after a period of time. A new igniter should cure that problem for you. Even though it's glowing, it's still probably failing and not allowing the gas valve to open up. If you go to our website, Repairclinic.com, get the model number off of that and put it into our website, you can also see the igniter and all the parts that are common for your machine. So, you can order it, have it shipped to your door, or you can drive down Michigan Avenue and pick it up today if you wish.


TOM

I heard you talking about it. Well, I thank you very, very much.


2002 Maytag Top Loading Washing Machine Not Spinning Fast Enough


JOHN MCCULLOCH

We'll give some expert advice to John, who has a Maytag washer that won't spin properly, here on the Appliance Repair Show. John, go ahead.


JOHN

Hello sir. I have a Maytag top loading washer. It was made in 2002.


JOHN SOWDEN

Okay.


JOHN

The funny thing is that we didn't start using it until six months ago, so this machine is like brand new. Whenever you put a load in that's, say larger than half of a tub of clothes, it will not spin the thing fast enough to get all the water out. I did some looking on the Internet and it seems to be a common problem with this machine. I did a few things to it. I checked for a stuck sock in between the two tubs, since I read about that being a possibility.


JOHN SOWDEN

Yes, that can do it.


JOHN

I didn't see anything along the sides. Now is it possible something might be on the bottom between the two tubs?


JOHN SOWDEN

It's possible. But you've only used this thing for six months?


JOHN

Yeah, it's been six months at the most.


JOHN SOWDEN

Normally, garments that get stuck in there are socks, baby clothes are a real good culprit; smaller articles will flip over the inner tub, if you use an extra high water level and you have a lot of small articles, once in a while one will flip over and escape and go between the two tubs.


JOHN

Okay.


JOHN SOWDEN

Now does it spin the water out? Does it drain?


JOHN

It does drain.


JOHN SOWDEN

But it doesn't spin up to speed?


JOHN

I took the belt off and checked the pump. The pump spins freely, the belt looks good, and I even tried to spray some of that belt dressing on it. Nothing seems to work. I've taken the motor while the thing is running and tried to pivot it tighter, tighten the belt, and even that doesn't work. I read that it could be the thrust bearing or something?


JOHN SOWDEN

Yes, that's just what I was going to say. The first thing you don't want to do on washing machines in general is put any kind of dressing on the belts. That belt is actually designed to slip on startup, it acts as a clutch, and those pivoting points, although it doesn't look like it, it's putting enough pressure on that motor gradually to get it up to speed.


JOHN

All right.


JOHN SOWDEN

So you may want to look at changing the belt. If it grabs right away, if you've got a washer tub that's spinning at zero and the motor is at 1,500 RPMS then you'll probably burn it off anyway. That thing is made to engage.


JOHN

Okay.


JOHN SOWDEN

And the thrust bearing kit is a small set of needle bearings on the transmission pulley, on the very underside; there's a cap that you have to remove and then a C-clip, and then you can pop off the lower pulley and access the washer and thrust bearing assembly.


JOHN

Okay, this is on the bottom side of the machine, right?


JOHN SOWDEN

That is correct. It comes as a kit with instructions; it's around thirty dollars and we have them in stock. You want to make sure you follow the instructions when you put it on because they do have to be spaced properly. Normally to get them spaced properly it's hard to put it on, because you really have to force that C-clip back; they fit pretty tight.


JOHN

Okay.


JOHN SOWDEN

And on the cams that come with it, it will show you a go and no-go spacing so you'll know where you are. But it's a pretty...it's not a hard do-it-yourselfer job; you just have to lean the machine back and get under there. But that's normally what's causing that, it's not disengaging the brake all the way because the bearings are partially worn or missing.


JOHN

I see. Would it be common on something that's only been used for six months?


JOHN SOWDEN

Not necessarily, but from what you're describing and this machine, that's what I would lean to.


JOHN

Okay.


JOHN SOWDEN

Unfortunately it's out of warranty, even though you've only had it in operation a short time. Normally, a manufacturer will cover that only if you can prove that you bought it and then you were building a house for four years and you just put it up for operation. They will sometimes go by a closing date rather than by the date of purchase. But otherwise it's date of purchase.


JOHN

Okay. I understand that this machine isn't actually made by Maytag. Something about how it doesn't have two belts in it so it was a Norge design. Do you know about that?


JOHN SOWDEN

Well, the mother company was Maytag. It's not a Maytag that you could have purchased twenty years ago. It would have been a Norge, Admiral, some of the other names out there. But yes, Maytag made it, in the sense that Maytag was the mother company was at the time it was produced.


JOHN

I see. Thanks very much for your help. We'll give that a try.


2007 Kenmore Top Mount Refrigerator Making Noise


JOHN MCCULLOCH
Charles, in Roseville, has a noisy Kenmore refrigerator, on the Appliance Repair show. How noisy is it, Charles?


CHARLES

Yes, John. I've got a Kenmore refrigerator that was purchased for me. I have an apartment. It seems like it's making a lot of noise, and I'm just wondering, is that normal to make so much noise? Because it makes a lot more noise than my old one did. And I'm wondering if it's just normal, to be new, before they're broken in, to make a lot more noise? And also if you could tell me what setting I should actually put it on?


JOHN SOWDEN
Okay, is this a freezer on top, a side by side?


CHARLES

Yes.


JOHN SOWDEN

A freezer on top? And it's a self-defrosting?


CHARLES

Right. And it's, I would say, fifteen cubic feet. It's an apartment size.


JOHN SOWDEN

Right, it's smaller. As far as the settings go, I would suggest both controls in the middle.


CHARLES

In the middle? That's the freezer and the one in the refrigerator?


JOHN SOWDEN

Yes. And start from that point, go twenty-four hours, you can put a thermometer in each section, and then any time you make an adjustment it should be a small adjustment, normally one letter or number, depending on the dial. Then wait twenty-four hours again to check it. If you start turning it up and down you never really know what you have.


CHARLES

Okay.


JOHN SOWDEN

As far as the noise goes, now, it all depends on what you had in there. If the other one didn't have self-defrosting, or didn't have a fan that ran underneath it, then that could be the difference that you're hearing. A lot of the new ones have a fan motor that cools the condensing coils, as well as a lot of the newer machines will have smaller sized outlet tubing out of the compressor. They do that in order to achieve a little more energy efficiency; what they're doing is pushing the refrigerant through smaller diameter tubing, which helps condense it, faster. That can cause a little more vibration or high-pitched noises than your old machine might have done.


CHARLES

Will it eventually quiet down, or am I just going to have to get used to this?


JOHN SOWDEN

You might have to get used to it. The common complaint of the repair man is my old one didn't do this, or my old one didn't make this noise, and it's just because people are used to using and/or living with these appliances for years and years, and then something new comes in, and even the installation as far as it resonates off the walls or cabinets can either enhance or stifle the noises. Obviously, I'd have to hear it to know if there's anything wrong with it, but if it's cooling properly and everything else; I'd say it's something that you might just have to get used to.


CHARLES

I'll keep an eye on it and see if it's cooling enough or if it's getting too cold, and if it is then I'll just dial it up or down a little bit, and more or less get used to the higher noise level.


JOHN MCCULLOCH

Is it keeping you up nights, Charles?


CHARLES

It is, because I'm not used to it. Can I ask you one more thing? My brother in-law has a refrigerator in his garage. I heard the other fellow talking abut how they waive the warranty if the refrigerator is in the garage?


JOHN SOWDEN

Yes, some manufacturers will state that right in the contract.


CHARLES

Right. Well he bought his used; he bought it from a resale shop. And, he put it in his garage, and in the winter, it doesn't seem to run. And, you were saying about the oil gets thick.


JOHN SOWDEN

Well, not only that, but it's colder in your garage than it is in the freezer, so it doesn't call for cooling.


CHARLES

Okay. So would it be better for him to just unplug it?


JOHN SOWDEN

No, because if it then warms up then you're going to lose food. Some manufacturers will have what they call a garage kit, which forces it to stay running periodically in colder temperatures. Some of the older machines, it was literally a matter of turning on the light bulb inside the cabinet to add some heat and then cycle on the thermostat. Other newer ones have a heater you can put in and that other stuff.


CHARLES

No, it's nothing like that. It's just a small one. He just bought it to keep his pop and beer in there, and maybe an extra loaf of bread or something. He told me another thing, in the winter or the spring the thing will have a heck of a smell, and then it will go away.


JOHN SOWDEN

Hmm.


CHARLES

And I don't know if that's from it not running in the winter, or...?


JOHN SOWDEN

Could be the chipmunk that's nesting behind it.


CHARLES

Well, he thought maybe it was a mouse or something that died behind there so he pulled it out and everything was clean. So I don't know what the deal was, but yeah I'm going to tell him to leave it on and not worry about unplugging it.


1998 GE Dishwasher Leaving Soap Spots on Dishes


JOHN MCCULLOCH

We haven't had a dishwasher question yet this morning, so let's take care of that with John, in Rochester Hills, here on the Appliance Repair Show.


JOHN

Good morning, gentlemen. Real quick question: I have a General Electric dishwasher, the Ultra Quiet model, made in 1998; the last couple of months it started leaving soap spots when it dried. We had switched detergents, so we went back to a national brand, and it seemed to help a little bit, but we're still getting the etching and so on. I've gone ahead and made sure it's discharging the dirty water and it's running through the cycle fine. I ran a check on the temperature of the water actually in the dishwasher and it's running between 115 and120 degrees. So, I went ahead and wrapped the thermal couple around the heater, I'm assuming it's the drying coil. It's just above the water in the dishwasher.


JOHN SOWDEN

Right.


JOHN

And, it's running at about 130 degrees during the wash cycle. I don't know if that's normal or not. I don't know where to go from here other than to pull it out and get a new one.


JOHN SOWDEN

Well, you say that there's spots left on the dishes. Does this have a rinse aid dispenser in it?


JOHN

It does have a rinse aid dispenser in it, which we don't use.


JOHN SOWDEN

I would start using it!


JOHN

Okay, you think that's it?


JOHN SOWDEN

Yeah, as far as the last rinse, if it has an automatic dispenser, then I would recommend putting the brand of your choice in there and it will definitely help with the final rinse. Other things to consider are, again, water temperature, water hardness, and...


JOHN

Water is softened going in and the softener is working fine. As a matter of fact, I recharged the softener that morning, so I knew that it was right. And then ran it that evening to see how it did. Does the water temperature sound about right?


JOHN SOWDEN

Yeah. A lot of times if you select the sanitary cycle it will get up to 150 or 160 degrees. Normally in the last rinse, it will heat it up higher depending on what you select and the type of dishwasher.


JOHN

Okay.


JOHN SOWDEN

You know, it's funny because I've got a similar dishwasher and the other day I noticed that the dishes had spots, and what had happened was I had the handle of one of the spoons stuck to the bottom of the silverware basket, and it topped the wash arm from turning.


JOHN

You know, I never thought of that. I opened up the washer and the wash arm wasn't spinning that fast. Not as fast as I'm used to, because the old single wash arm just spun like crazy. You open it up and you could see it winding down. This one's got the plastic one and it wasn't spinning as fast as I thought it would.


JOHN SOWDEN

Yeah, it all depends on the machine. The other thing you can do is in the wash cycle, add another pitcher or two of hot water, and if you notice that the wash action picks up quite a bit, then you could have a restricted water inlet valve.


JOHN

Okay.


JOHN SOWDEN

They're on a timed fill, so you get normally ninety seconds of fill before every cycle. And if you have a restricted water valve, you're only going to get two thirds of the water in it, which doesn't generate enough pressure. And if the machine is pushing ten years old, that's not uncommon, especially if you are on a well.


JOHN

How do you get that, do you just replace the whole valve?


JOHN SOWDEN

Yes.


JOHN

Right at the copper tube there?


JOHN SOWDEN

Yes, that's the water inlet valve, and they're normally thirty or forty dollars. As long as the water turns off for you, it's normally a straightforward repair; sometimes the hot water will stick, the shutoff valve, and then that can become a little more challenging.


JOHN

Okay. The diverter valve also has a little drip in it, where it diverts water to the sink drain, the little flapper solenoid?


JOHN SOWDEN

Right.


JOHN

Do you guys still sell that grommet to replace that back there?


JOHN SOWDEN

The fifteen dollar o-ring?


JOHN

Yeah, the most expensive o-ring, the one sold by NASA, that's right!


JOHN SOWDEN

Yes, that's the cost of the o-ring, and that's one place where I know where to get it. Yes, I do believe we still have those in stock, and that is a cheaper solution than the whole-if it's just dripping through that shaft where it goes to the solenoid assembly, you can, most of the time successfully change that o-ring and get it to stop.


JOHN

Okay. Good enough! Thank you for your time.


Replacing a Three Prong Dryer Cord with a Four Prong Cord


JOHN MCCULLOCH

And, here's a question about a dryer pigtail from Ken, in Ann Arbor on the Appliance Repair Show.


KEN

I'm switching a dryer. The one that's currently in there has a four prong pigtail, and the one I'm replacing it with has a three prong. My question is, can I just switch out the pigtails, or do I have to switch out the receptacles as well?


JOHN SOWDEN

The machine that you currently have now, in your home, on the wall you have a four prong receptacle, is that correct?


KEN

That is correct.


JOHN SOWDEN

And the dryer you have is a four prong, correct?


KEN

That is correct.


JOHN SOWDEN

So, you could just change the cord over from the one dryer to the other.


KEN

That was my question: can I just switch the pigtail or the cords out?


JOHN SOWDEN

Sure, if you've already got it where it's hooked up. You've got the four prong receptacle and the four prong cord already, so yeah; you can just remove the three prong off the new dryer and just re-use the old cord.


KEN

That's great. I sure appreciate it!

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